Class balance - expirience share

dear community

some weeks ago, we got several inquire about an class imbalance, mostly related to Summoner and Elementalist.
i started with tests (out of my best intension) and informed Vs and GM about it.
Justac team ask now for an official topic with objective expirience share.

it isnt about to degrade a specific class, its more about to make little adjustment here and there.
i will also share my own expirience tests in the post below.

thanks all
*troll posts will be deleted.

due the last weeks, i tryed to 1v1 several full geared and more or less max stat classes.
myself isnt max stat so far, so i can only share my personal stuff.

my opinion:
some classes benefit much from the lower CD at HH skills
plus the boost of HH dmg on weapon and new scions available on uniques.
my tests where showing, that Summoner, Elem, Sorc and (Mage = didnt find active full geared)
benefits the most. (correct me if im wrong)

i was fighting (1v1):
Hunter (Pinklady) - more or less equal (maybe its bcs my weapons are not with new HH stat)
Swash (Gao) - equal (depends who did the wrong switch)
Zerk (Beastgardins) - equal
Ranger - didnt fight a full geared one
Elementalist - equal
Slayer - didnt fight a full geared one
Mage - didnt fight a full geared one
Knight - not many serious knight around so far, but this which i fought, hits hard (so i call it equal)
Archer (multible persons) - are totally lost vs summoner

my tests are still ongoing, so feel free to correct me here and there and do not judge me
my actual conclusion (for now):
Archer need an adjustment, at least related to HH resistance or whatever is causing that issue of HH dmg on them.

From my experience as archer:
Fighting vs elem or summoner is crazy. Summoner can hit me for 6-8k full party buffed vs full party buffed (even when I'm on full tank and he doesn't even debuff me) .
Elementalists are more or less ok in full party buffed fights but selfbuffed archers getting destroyed by 6k+ DMG from elem(1 skill is unblockable) .
Latest changes also boosted Hunters a lot so running away from an hunter is almost impossible in selfbuffed fights. Once he lands his HP debuff you need to switch to tank uniques and u are slower than him on full DMG. Easy catch, debuff and finish with 2 hits.
While in selfbuffed fights with many ppl you can at least cast slow summoner, there is no way to do so on party buffs so there is basically no counter then slowing/stunning.

In my opinion good way of rebalance would be upgrading heroic resistance with stones and adding heroic resistance debuffs so ppl would need to debuff to actually hit the high DMG. Heroic defence is like nothing compared to the DMG output on some classes.

As a slayer:
Tanking isn't bad if you okay smart but useful only as stunner on full party buffs. Giving additional dodge or block debuffs would be great. DMG wise it's ok but without CRIT res debuff slayer is dealing less DMG then a swash (that has a lot more attack speed and also more dodge/block debuffs, as well as SB debuffs) . Boosting slayers team fight or solo abilities would be nice .
My opinion:
- more dodge/block debuffs (around 15% more should be fine)
- slight SB debuff (around 30%)
- dim res or heroic res debuff

That's my opinion about the balance playing these 2 classes.

[Nymeria]

My personnal POV with Elementalist & Summoners as a Cast Swash (mostly):

Summoner:

* If i'm on damage uniqs => I get melted (which makes complete sense)
* If on tank uniqs: I take heavy damage even without the debuffs being in, but I can survive a bit more.

On the counterpart a summoner on tank uniqs: there's no way I can kill it, even with my yolo mode (because again, I take too much damage even if they're on tank)
On yolo mode: They can die.

I also faced a few summoners with an orbiter full 8/8, and on a full tank mode they can't really go through my defensives to take me down, the damage output is still very big and I think toxic hand is a life-saver in that case.

- Elementalist:
* No need to say I get melted on damage uniqs (3 shot with wind sheer).
* On tank uniqs: I can get hit up to 8/9k by an elementalist on full damage uniqs & gear (with just windsheer.. and 5/6k without it with 80% dim res..). It would make sense for me if the elementalist could die, but .. no, they don't even die that easily on "yolo mode".

I would understand if the elementalist was still slower than the other classes, for them to have a huge dmg output as they can't really catchup someone kiting them.. But that's not even the case anymore ever since they got a huge movement speed passive boost.

Also went against full geared ele with a full geared hunter (8/8) & orbiter (8/8), nothing changed, they melted me regardless of me being on tank (I took a 9k+ from an elementalist with just windsheer..)

In my personnal opinion elementalist isn't balanced at the moment. It has everything : tankiness, damage output, sustain.

As for Summoner, it has two weapons so it's hard to call them completely unbalanced, especialy given they got nerfed on stage 1. In the current state the class is very very powerful. Does it require change, probably, which? I can't really have a great insight on that. Given it's a mage class I think it still needs to have good damage (it's not really a support class), maybe a bit less overall tankyness.


** This answer might become irrelevant depending on tomorrow's update

[Aook]

For me on the 8/8 knight :

Summoner deals a lot of damage without any debuff in, around 5/6k on damage uniques
Tank uniques prevents me from dying

Elem deals 4.5k without windsheer, with it it goes to 8-9k, still on damage uniques
On tank i can survive (barely tho if windsheer is in)


Knight was relevant when it came to tankiness, but now with all those damage boosts, in teamfight its like a slayer just a stun machine, and even when combined with a slayer, knight cant do anything else than stun

Full buffet fights with critters are meaningless, everyone has way too much dodge/block and movement speed.

Knight runs (full buff) at 380, one slow from anyone removes at least 55% he cant follow the fight, his attack speed is at maximum 370, heavyhand slows him too much being unable to attack

And in self buff fights... yeah it can debuff dodge and block, but he gets slowed too hard in both attack speed and movement speed. Lets not talk about the fact that his damage is way too low compared to any other critter, a zerk crit mode does 10k damage, slayer 29k, swash 11k, knight 6k
Swash is unslowable and her attack speed is the highest, zerk debuffs also resistance alongside dodge, slayer debuffs crit resi and dodge + block

There is almost no critters on the server anymore, even in terms of farming in endgame areas critters are completly absent


For orbiter it is OK, even tho maybe a slight movement speed boist could be useful because getting outrun by an elem is unbelievable

[shado]

in my opinion, summoner and elem should remain as they are, I would also leave archer for testing, but I would change ele res for the slayer mage and swash, because these 3 classes have no chance now, they are dropping like flies after debuffing ele res and only these 3 classes must have an additional set with ele stones to last as long as other classes. 1vs1 has no chance because it is very easy for them to debuff ele res
knight need get crit res debuf and slayer dodge/blocke debuff in my opinion to back in game

btw slayer have a lot weaknesses cast/ block/dodge / ele res are on him so low, swash can kill him so easy on crits in some sec he die  like archer kill him 2/3 shot its uslees fights

each class should have some chance against each other and should fail if someone makes a mistake when changing tank/dmg uniqes and not on tank uniqes they will fail in a few seconds

we should do 1 vs 1 of each class and see which class is too op and boost those that had no chance

[Proteus]

Maxed archer vs maxed summoner.

While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a maxed summoner is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 3500 to 4,500 dmg.

Summoner on tank mode vs me on tank mode they hit me 5.500 - 6500.

Summoner on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 6500-8,500. If they somehow find you under 80 resistance then you will most likely receive over 10.000 minimum.

The only way to counter summoner at this point is cast debuffs and hope that  you get them on a bad switch. Under any other conditions you get melted due to their extreme heroic damage.

These numbers are an average from my fights versus Earn and Awp06.

Maxed archer vs maxed elementalist

While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a maxed ele is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them around 4.500 dmg.

Elem on tank mode vs me on tank mode they hit me around 5.500

Elem on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 90) they hit me from 6000-7500.

Elementalist again they are pretty tanky vs classes that they don't debuff their physical resistance. Archer vs Elementalist equally geared, archer has no chance and can die on tank mode if they do not try to escape/run.

These are average numbers versus Coolbaby.

Maxed Archer vs Sorc

Haven't fought a maxed sorc yet (I think)

While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a sorc is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them around  6000 - 7.000 dmg.

Sorc on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me around 6500. If they somehow find you under 80 resistance then you will most likely receive over 8.000 minimum.

Narcolepsy needs to be adjust since it has LONG duration and insane success and can be spammed. Plus it bugs your passive/ranks in case you switch uniques during narcolepsy.

Maxed archer vs maxed hunter

While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a maxed hunter is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 3500 to 4,000 dmg.

Hunter on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 4500-6000. If they somehow find you under 80 dim resistance then you will most likely receive over 7.000 minimum.

Op hp debuff takes instantly over 7000 hp.

Maxed archer vs ranger

While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a ranger is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 4000-5000.

Ranger on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 4500-5500.

Maxed archer vs orbitter

While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and the orbitter is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 4000-4500.

Orbitter on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 4000-4500.

Maxed archer vs maxed zerk

While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a zerker is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 4000-4500.

Zerker on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 5000-7000.

Sample from fights vs Beastguardins.

Maxed archer vs maxed swash

While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a swashs on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 3500-4500.

Swash on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 4500-5500.

Sample from fights vs Giaoxilan.

Maxed archer vs knights

While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a knight is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 4000-4500.

Knights crit me around 6000 currently. Knights on ignore elemental builld hit me 8.000 to 10.000

Maxed archer vs slayer/mages

Haven't fought many but I am able to kill slayers and mages quite easily at this point.

Hello,

Sorry for not having specific numbers so my thinking could be a little bit rudimentary.

Me as a sorcerer:

In a 1v1, the most problems are while fighting an archer.
Having 2 elemental resi debuffs, 2 cast debuffs, doing insane amount of damage while having the biggest movement speed in the game is insane.

Life as a sorc right now in a 1v1 vs archer is like -> stay on full tank and pray you survive (don't even think about the possibility of a kill.. just try to tank the hell of out it).

[dexcel]

hello, Archers can kill me , sommuners can kill me , i can kill archers , sommuners not , Zerk cant kill me i cant kill him , i can kill an ele with lucky hits i can tank an ele  , thats what i tested today  ( my sorc is maxed )

[Amoswar]

There are 2 important things people forget here.

Balance is hard to make when you consider FULL BUFF vs SELF BUFF.

Party buffs are to strong, they should put some damage buffs back into single buffs of each class and less into party buffs one.
Im not talking about Defensive party buffs which is mostly ok since you need 3-4 differents class to kill a full buff player.

Knight :
Need more damage or increase its rating hits. PUT BACK the debuffs value from previous Justac, 75% dodge/block on combo skills.
Mage :
This one is hard, but i think on fullbuff its at a good spot, but on selfbuff it need some defensive stats to survive in 1v1
Archer :
Dont touch its MS, remove elemental res from Helpless (its 100% success) and put it into its HH debuff, which wont make archer 2 shot people on damage uniques, but if you hit all 3 debuffs, LIKE any other class, you would kill players easily.

Zerk :
Its on a decent place, but it could have less mana consumption
Sorcerer :
This class has received probably the most buffs since the beginning and is still struggling. I personnaly dont know what it lacks since its been a while i didnt play it.
Hunter :
Decent spot, its a great support character, the nerf on Cure did hit her bad for stamping, so maybe increase a bit its duration

Swash :
Probably the easiest one, give MS to the class on selfbuff by removing 10% from HH buff and give it back to the class itself
Ranger :
Give some SB buff to the class
Elementalist :
With the boost of MS, it made elem beiing useful on teamfight now, but elem is still the best 1v1 class on selfbuff, fix the bomba to make it a skill and decrease the debuff dim res to fix the class. (this would also fix the problem with bomba and larva not beiing able to hit the same target)

Slayer :
It has to much raw crit damage and to low attack rating, swap some to fix the class. Its supposed to be weak on defensive, thats why you have legendary slayer, so i wouldnt touch anything defense wise
Summuner :
The problem with this class at the moment is on fullbuff it has to many raw damage, if the fix to party buffs if made, then it would fix the class itself. On Selfbuff, if larva is fixed, it would need a damage reduction, but withotu a fix to larva, i dont think any changes are necessary. Only thing would be a small fix on HH damage now that the HH has reduced CD, but it would be a slight touch necessary in my opinion
Orbiter
We love you, you are perfect.

Feel free to give your opinion

[Nymeria]

Because of my limited english , what I can say is limited.


Ranger :
Reduce mana consumption，Especially  Comb skill

Swash:
back 15-20% movement to this class , make her At least could debuffs in self / full buffs mode.



i don't think more balance is needed.

I don't think ranger needs reduced mana consumption given that she has mana absorb buff that has mana recovery.. Built proper you don't really struggle in PVE, and a bit in PVP if you obviously spam too much heroic..

I kinda agree about the swash but it has to be on advent legend, even if it means nerfing Fortitude Soul. But if so, the slow from Lightning rush could be reduced aswell.

Archers have the fastest movement speed and completely unrestricted abilities in the game, and even possess 100% first hit skills with high damage that are guaranteed to hit. The cost of replacing these attributes is a very fragile physique (similar to the opposite direction of Swash). If you need to increase the archer's output ability or survival ability, you must sacrifice your movement speed or skills that can be restricted or unsealed.
Regarding mage, I think Justac has completely forgotten the meaning of this character's existence, similar to a mascot? The most common topic I've heard about Justac on other servers is: Hahaha, their people's ability to avoid stun almost cannot deprive them of ptbuff, cannot reduce attribute resistance, and has become a complete mascot assistant
Regarding Sorc: I can no longer express the performance of this charismatic character in the current version in words. I can only say that most Sorc players demonstrate this through actions, such as Xsouron and Malalala, where Sorc players were independently killed by archers and eles in 1V1, and died in full buff within three seconds. Making a character feel non-existent in the game itself indicates a problem.
Finally, if you are standing from the player's perspective, don't just stare at those players who are constantly shouting, why not ask other players why they left just?
If you are standing from the perspective of GM, please let new players/independent players/fully fledged players have something to do, not shining in the jungle every day

对于其他玩家：
当欧洲玩家大杀四方的时候(比如 Proteus /Driler/ Dogm4/Haliv/etc etc),服务器总是不会有任何反应。甚至一度觉得是平衡的
当中国玩家 或者 少数群体将一个职业 不光是通过时间还是精力还是金钱,玩的OP的时候,服务器总是想通过各种改动来平衡
这使得我的团队成员总是认为服务器是龌龊的,是不太公平的服务器，去年年底，一些事让一半我的团队成员离开
我并不想更多的事情出现，让我更多的成员离开，因为这是我们通过大量的QQ群 和 BiiBi 吸引而来的 ，这非常的来之不易
如 xox 告诉我，这是欧洲人的服务器一样，这里的规则是他们制定的,但很多时候，即使是我也想尽量的公平
而不是我花了2-3个月的时间，10keu 而是不开心的
愿服务器长虹，愿我们所爱的霸王大陆/青春 永驻

[dexcel]

The Problem about sorc is that hes Not Fun to Play in fights your always First Target and perma stunned, or Toxic handelt , restrained or halted. The SB sorc have is Not that high becouse you cant use your sb buff if u run combi, and the ele resi is low to so you still die in seconds Even with maxed gear. I invested so much time and Money to Max him to still be Paper 🙄 my dmg is Fine and farming is fun. In smallscale fights sorc is fun and Strong. Sleep says 90% But Feels Like 70% is failing often and i have to make Enemys Red before

[Lure]

The Problem about sorc is that hes Not Fun to Play in fights your always First Target and perma stunned, or Toxic handelt , restrained or halted. The SB sorc have is Not that high becouse you cant use your sb buff if u run combi, and the ele resi is low to so you still die in seconds Even with maxed gear. I invested so much time and Money to Max him to still be Paper 🙄 my dmg is Fine and farming is fun. In smallscale fights sorc is fun and Strong. Sleep says 90% But Feels Like 70% is failing often and i have to make Enemys Red before

sorc and mage is top 1 damage in server

change mind he / she is supporter but he / she is damger now

put all new scions everywhere and with boost 15% phy debuff , u will know how op it is


ur side  Xxxxx sorc  hit me 8000 with my reaper and hestia and defensive gears , if it's all new scion , i can't think more ~


and for archer , change mind too , he could supporter and make new ashtals into it. with unti-slow unti-stun, Continuous damage is also a good choice