Justac Forum
General Discussion => Suggestions => Topic started by: D0gm4 on June 10, 2024, 05:38:16 PM
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dear community
some weeks ago, we got several inquire about an class imbalance, mostly related to Summoner and Elementalist.
i started with tests (out of my best intension) and informed Vs and GM about it.
Justac team ask now for an official topic with objective expirience share.
it isnt about to degrade a specific class, its more about to make little adjustment here and there.
i will also share my own expirience tests in the post below.
thanks all
*troll posts will be deleted.
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due the last weeks, i tryed to 1v1 several full geared and more or less max stat classes.
myself isnt max stat so far, so i can only share my personal stuff.
my opinion:
some classes benefit much from the lower CD at HH skills
plus the boost of HH dmg on weapon and new scions available on uniques.
my tests where showing, that Summoner, Elem, Sorc and (Mage = didnt find active full geared)
benefits the most. (correct me if im wrong)
i was fighting (1v1):
Hunter (Pinklady) - more or less equal (maybe its bcs my weapons are not with new HH stat)
Swash (Gao) - equal (depends who did the wrong switch)
Zerk (Beastgardins) - equal
Ranger - didnt fight a full geared one
Elementalist - equal
Slayer - didnt fight a full geared one
Mage - didnt fight a full geared one
Knight - not many serious knight around so far, but this which i fought, hits hard (so i call it equal)
Archer (multible persons) - are totally lost vs summoner
my tests are still ongoing, so feel free to correct me here and there and do not judge me :)
my actual conclusion (for now):
Archer need an adjustment, at least related to HH resistance or whatever is causing that issue of HH dmg on them.
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From my experience as archer:
Fighting vs elem or summoner is crazy. Summoner can hit me for 6-8k full party buffed vs full party buffed (even when I'm on full tank and he doesn't even debuff me) .
Elementalists are more or less ok in full party buffed fights but selfbuffed archers getting destroyed by 6k+ DMG from elem(1 skill is unblockable) .
Latest changes also boosted Hunters a lot so running away from an hunter is almost impossible in selfbuffed fights. Once he lands his HP debuff you need to switch to tank uniques and u are slower than him on full DMG. Easy catch, debuff and finish with 2 hits.
While in selfbuffed fights with many ppl you can at least cast slow summoner, there is no way to do so on party buffs so there is basically no counter then slowing/stunning.
In my opinion good way of rebalance would be upgrading heroic resistance with stones and adding heroic resistance debuffs so ppl would need to debuff to actually hit the high DMG. Heroic defence is like nothing compared to the DMG output on some classes.
As a slayer:
Tanking isn't bad if you okay smart but useful only as stunner on full party buffs. Giving additional dodge or block debuffs would be great. DMG wise it's ok but without CRIT res debuff slayer is dealing less DMG then a swash (that has a lot more attack speed and also more dodge/block debuffs, as well as SB debuffs) . Boosting slayers team fight or solo abilities would be nice .
My opinion:
- more dodge/block debuffs (around 15% more should be fine)
- slight SB debuff (around 30%)
- dim res or heroic res debuff
That's my opinion about the balance playing these 2 classes.
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My personnal POV with Elementalist & Summoners as a Cast Swash (mostly):
Summoner:
* If i'm on damage uniqs => I get melted (which makes complete sense)
* If on tank uniqs: I take heavy damage even without the debuffs being in, but I can survive a bit more.
On the counterpart a summoner on tank uniqs: there's no way I can kill it, even with my yolo mode (because again, I take too much damage even if they're on tank)
On yolo mode: They can die.
I also faced a few summoners with an orbiter full 8/8, and on a full tank mode they can't really go through my defensives to take me down, the damage output is still very big and I think toxic hand is a life-saver in that case.
- Elementalist:
* No need to say I get melted on damage uniqs (3 shot with wind sheer).
* On tank uniqs: I can get hit up to 8/9k by an elementalist on full damage uniqs & gear (with just windsheer.. and 5/6k without it with 80% dim res..). It would make sense for me if the elementalist could die, but .. no, they don't even die that easily on "yolo mode".
I would understand if the elementalist was still slower than the other classes, for them to have a huge dmg output as they can't really catchup someone kiting them.. But that's not even the case anymore ever since they got a huge movement speed passive boost.
Also went against full geared ele with a full geared hunter (8/8) & orbiter (8/8), nothing changed, they melted me regardless of me being on tank (I took a 9k+ from an elementalist with just windsheer..)
In my personnal opinion elementalist isn't balanced at the moment. It has everything : tankiness, damage output, sustain.
As for Summoner, it has two weapons so it's hard to call them completely unbalanced, especialy given they got nerfed on stage 1. In the current state the class is very very powerful. Does it require change, probably, which? I can't really have a great insight on that. Given it's a mage class I think it still needs to have good damage (it's not really a support class), maybe a bit less overall tankyness.
** This answer might become irrelevant depending on tomorrow's update
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For me on the 8/8 knight :
Summoner deals a lot of damage without any debuff in, around 5/6k on damage uniques
Tank uniques prevents me from dying
Elem deals 4.5k without windsheer, with it it goes to 8-9k, still on damage uniques
On tank i can survive (barely tho if windsheer is in)
Knight was relevant when it came to tankiness, but now with all those damage boosts, in teamfight its like a slayer just a stun machine, and even when combined with a slayer, knight cant do anything else than stun
Full buffet fights with critters are meaningless, everyone has way too much dodge/block and movement speed.
Knight runs (full buff) at 380, one slow from anyone removes at least 55% he cant follow the fight, his attack speed is at maximum 370, heavyhand slows him too much being unable to attack
And in self buff fights... yeah it can debuff dodge and block, but he gets slowed too hard in both attack speed and movement speed. Lets not talk about the fact that his damage is way too low compared to any other critter, a zerk crit mode does 10k damage, slayer 29k, swash 11k, knight 6k
Swash is unslowable and her attack speed is the highest, zerk debuffs also resistance alongside dodge, slayer debuffs crit resi and dodge + block
There is almost no critters on the server anymore, even in terms of farming in endgame areas critters are completly absent
For orbiter it is OK, even tho maybe a slight movement speed boist could be useful because getting outrun by an elem is unbelievable
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in my opinion, summoner and elem should remain as they are, I would also leave archer for testing, but I would change ele res for the slayer mage and swash, because these 3 classes have no chance now, they are dropping like flies after debuffing ele res and only these 3 classes must have an additional set with ele stones to last as long as other classes. 1vs1 has no chance because it is very easy for them to debuff ele res
knight need get crit res debuf and slayer dodge/blocke debuff in my opinion to back in game
btw slayer have a lot weaknesses cast/ block/dodge / ele res are on him so low, swash can kill him so easy on crits in some sec he die like archer kill him 2/3 shot its uslees fights
each class should have some chance against each other and should fail if someone makes a mistake when changing tank/dmg uniqes and not on tank uniqes they will fail in a few seconds
we should do 1 vs 1 of each class and see which class is too op and boost those that had no chance
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Maxed archer vs maxed summoner.
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a maxed summoner is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 3500 to 4,500 dmg.
Summoner on tank mode vs me on tank mode they hit me 5.500 - 6500.
Summoner on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 6500-8,500. If they somehow find you under 80 resistance then you will most likely receive over 10.000 minimum.
The only way to counter summoner at this point is cast debuffs and hope that you get them on a bad switch. Under any other conditions you get melted due to their extreme heroic damage.
These numbers are an average from my fights versus Earn and Awp06.
Maxed archer vs maxed elementalist
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a maxed ele is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them around 4.500 dmg.
Elem on tank mode vs me on tank mode they hit me around 5.500
Elem on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 90) they hit me from 6000-7500.
Elementalist again they are pretty tanky vs classes that they don't debuff their physical resistance. Archer vs Elementalist equally geared, archer has no chance and can die on tank mode if they do not try to escape/run.
These are average numbers versus Coolbaby.
Maxed Archer vs Sorc
Haven't fought a maxed sorc yet (I think)
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a sorc is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them around 6000 - 7.000 dmg.
Sorc on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me around 6500. If they somehow find you under 80 resistance then you will most likely receive over 8.000 minimum.
Narcolepsy needs to be adjust since it has LONG duration and insane success and can be spammed. Plus it bugs your passive/ranks in case you switch uniques during narcolepsy.
Maxed archer vs maxed hunter
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a maxed hunter is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 3500 to 4,000 dmg.
Hunter on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 4500-6000. If they somehow find you under 80 dim resistance then you will most likely receive over 7.000 minimum.
Op hp debuff takes instantly over 7000 hp.
Maxed archer vs ranger
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a ranger is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 4000-5000.
Ranger on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 4500-5500.
Maxed archer vs orbitter
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and the orbitter is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 4000-4500.
Orbitter on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 4000-4500.
Maxed archer vs maxed zerk
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a zerker is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 4000-4500.
Zerker on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 5000-7000.
Sample from fights vs Beastguardins.
Maxed archer vs maxed swash
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a swashs on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 3500-4500.
Swash on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 4500-5500.
Sample from fights vs Giaoxilan.
Maxed archer vs knights
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a knight is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 4000-4500.
Knights crit me around 6000 currently. Knights on ignore elemental builld hit me 8.000 to 10.000
Maxed archer vs slayer/mages
Haven't fought many but I am able to kill slayers and mages quite easily at this point.
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Hello,
Sorry for not having specific numbers so my thinking could be a little bit rudimentary.
Me as a sorcerer:
In a 1v1, the most problems are while fighting an archer.
Having 2 elemental resi debuffs, 2 cast debuffs, doing insane amount of damage while having the biggest movement speed in the game is insane.
Life as a sorc right now in a 1v1 vs archer is like -> stay on full tank and pray you survive (don't even think about the possibility of a kill.. just try to tank the hell of out it).
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hello, Archers can kill me , sommuners can kill me , i can kill archers , sommuners not , Zerk cant kill me i cant kill him , i can kill an ele with lucky hits i can tank an ele , thats what i tested today ( my sorc is maxed )
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There are 2 important things people forget here.
Balance is hard to make when you consider FULL BUFF vs SELF BUFF.
Party buffs are to strong, they should put some damage buffs back into single buffs of each class and less into party buffs one.
Im not talking about Defensive party buffs which is mostly ok since you need 3-4 differents class to kill a full buff player.
Knight :
Need more damage or increase its rating hits. PUT BACK the debuffs value from previous Justac, 75% dodge/block on combo skills.
Mage :
This one is hard, but i think on fullbuff its at a good spot, but on selfbuff it need some defensive stats to survive in 1v1
Archer :
Dont touch its MS, remove elemental res from Helpless (its 100% success) and put it into its HH debuff, which wont make archer 2 shot people on damage uniques, but if you hit all 3 debuffs, LIKE any other class, you would kill players easily.
Zerk :
Its on a decent place, but it could have less mana consumption
Sorcerer :
This class has received probably the most buffs since the beginning and is still struggling. I personnaly dont know what it lacks since its been a while i didnt play it.
Hunter :
Decent spot, its a great support character, the nerf on Cure did hit her bad for stamping, so maybe increase a bit its duration
Swash :
Probably the easiest one, give MS to the class on selfbuff by removing 10% from HH buff and give it back to the class itself
Ranger :
Give some SB buff to the class
Elementalist :
With the boost of MS, it made elem beiing useful on teamfight now, but elem is still the best 1v1 class on selfbuff, fix the bomba to make it a skill and decrease the debuff dim res to fix the class. (this would also fix the problem with bomba and larva not beiing able to hit the same target)
Slayer :
It has to much raw crit damage and to low attack rating, swap some to fix the class. Its supposed to be weak on defensive, thats why you have legendary slayer, so i wouldnt touch anything defense wise
Summuner :
The problem with this class at the moment is on fullbuff it has to many raw damage, if the fix to party buffs if made, then it would fix the class itself. On Selfbuff, if larva is fixed, it would need a damage reduction, but withotu a fix to larva, i dont think any changes are necessary. Only thing would be a small fix on HH damage now that the HH has reduced CD, but it would be a slight touch necessary in my opinion
Orbiter
We love you, you are perfect.
Feel free to give your opinion :P
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Because of my limited english , what I can say is limited.
Ranger :
Reduce mana consumption，Especially Comb skill
Swash:
back 15-20% movement to this class , make her At least could debuffs in self / full buffs mode.
i don't think more balance is needed.
I don't think ranger needs reduced mana consumption given that she has mana absorb buff that has mana recovery.. Built proper you don't really struggle in PVE, and a bit in PVP if you obviously spam too much heroic..
I kinda agree about the swash but it has to be on advent legend, even if it means nerfing Fortitude Soul. But if so, the slow from Lightning rush could be reduced aswell.
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Archers have the fastest movement speed and completely unrestricted abilities in the game, and even possess 100% first hit skills with high damage that are guaranteed to hit. The cost of replacing these attributes is a very fragile physique (similar to the opposite direction of Swash). If you need to increase the archer's output ability or survival ability, you must sacrifice your movement speed or skills that can be restricted or unsealed.
Regarding mage, I think Justac has completely forgotten the meaning of this character's existence, similar to a mascot? The most common topic I've heard about Justac on other servers is: Hahaha, their people's ability to avoid stun almost cannot deprive them of ptbuff, cannot reduce attribute resistance, and has become a complete mascot assistant
Regarding Sorc: I can no longer express the performance of this charismatic character in the current version in words. I can only say that most Sorc players demonstrate this through actions, such as Xsouron and Malalala, where Sorc players were independently killed by archers and eles in 1V1, and died in full buff within three seconds. Making a character feel non-existent in the game itself indicates a problem.
Finally, if you are standing from the player's perspective, don't just stare at those players who are constantly shouting, why not ask other players why they left just?
If you are standing from the perspective of GM, please let new players/independent players/fully fledged players have something to do, not shining in the jungle every day
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对于其他玩家：
当欧洲玩家大杀四方的时候(比如 Proteus /Driler/ Dogm4/Haliv/etc etc),服务器总是不会有任何反应。甚至一度觉得是平衡的
当中国玩家 或者 少数群体将一个职业 不光是通过时间还是精力还是金钱,玩的OP的时候,服务器总是想通过各种改动来平衡
这使得我的团队成员总是认为服务器是龌龊的,是不太公平的服务器，去年年底，一些事让一半我的团队成员离开
我并不想更多的事情出现，让我更多的成员离开，因为这是我们通过大量的QQ群 和 BiiBi 吸引而来的 ，这非常的来之不易
如 xox 告诉我，这是欧洲人的服务器一样，这里的规则是他们制定的,但很多时候，即使是我也想尽量的公平
而不是我花了2-3个月的时间，10keu 而是不开心的
愿服务器长虹，愿我们所爱的霸王大陆/青春 永驻
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The Problem about sorc is that hes Not Fun to Play in fights your always First Target and perma stunned, or Toxic handelt , restrained or halted. The SB sorc have is Not that high becouse you cant use your sb buff if u run combi, and the ele resi is low to so you still die in seconds Even with maxed gear. I invested so much time and Money to Max him to still be Paper 🙄 my dmg is Fine and farming is fun. In smallscale fights sorc is fun and Strong. Sleep says 90% But Feels Like 70% is failing often and i have to make Enemys Red before
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The Problem about sorc is that hes Not Fun to Play in fights your always First Target and perma stunned, or Toxic handelt , restrained or halted. The SB sorc have is Not that high becouse you cant use your sb buff if u run combi, and the ele resi is low to so you still die in seconds Even with maxed gear. I invested so much time and Money to Max him to still be Paper 🙄 my dmg is Fine and farming is fun. In smallscale fights sorc is fun and Strong. Sleep says 90% But Feels Like 70% is failing often and i have to make Enemys Red before
sorc and mage is top 1 damage in server
change mind he / she is supporter but he / she is damger now
put all new scions everywhere and with boost 15% phy debuff , u will know how op it is
ur side Xxxxx sorc hit me 8000 with my reaper and hestia and defensive gears , if it's all new scion , i can't think more ~
and for archer , change mind too , he could supporter and make new ashtals into it. with unti-slow unti-stun, Continuous damage is also a good choice
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I need hp and the damage , im debuffing resi Not ele resi, sommuner can kill a sorc if your Lava gois in ( i know its hard ) but a sorc shouldnt kill you on Full Tank sommuner debuffs my Resi on 60% and my sb around 50%
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The damage of the archer is very low and should be increased. Now it can only be used as an auxiliary to play
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The damage of the archer is very low and should be increased. Now it can only be used as an auxiliary to play
The passives boost are bugged, your damage will get higher once they fix them
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As an archer,
Against summoner, I don't have stand any they hit 5-6k without debuffs and they can also debuff cooldown.
Against hunter, Its a one way matchup I don't have any kill chance only thing I can is to run.
Against sorc, Very hard one I need to hit my every debuff and slow without getting halted so I can kill him I don't get halted again.
Against orbiter, I can't kill if he is on full tank simply.
Against elem, I take really high damages without debuffs If elem is on full tank does not die easily.
Did not make any test against other classes but the last update hurt archer very badly.
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As an archer,
Against summoner, I don't have stand any they hit 5-6k without debuffs and they can also debuff cooldown.
Against hunter, Its a one way matchup I don't have any kill chance only thing I can is to run.
Against sorc, Very hard one I need to hit my every debuff and slow without getting halted so I can kill him I don't get halted again.
Against orbiter, I can't kill if he is on full tank simply.
Against elem, I take really high damages without debuffs If elem is on full tank does not die easily.
Did not make any test against other classes but the last update hurt archer very badly.
right!!!!all right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Archers need to increase damage! The damage is too low now!
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What are you guys Taking ?
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What are you guys Taking ?
Archer actually does more damage than before but they qq that they dont deal enought damage
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What are you guys Taking ?
Archer actually does more damage than before but they qq that they dont deal enought damage
There are classes who can hit 6-7k without debuff to archer when you consider that archer is the class with lowest hp(I guess) and other defensive stats are not so high. Of course he can run away but in infernum if you get stuck you are dead. With the helpless change you need to hit your ele res debuffs with your slows at the same time. Also restrain does not work in infernum that is another disadvantage for archer. Archer is a bit off atm with selfbuff. I mean there are many counterplays against archer also like cd debuff, halt etc.
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Archer now requires skill to be played and it's not only about spamming a macro once your 100% debuff is in. The class is still in a very good spot, and even stronger now as it can support criters due to the 100% success block & dodge debuffs (which are in my opinion a complete mistake).
The problem doesn't come from archer being weak, it comes from other classes dealing more damages than they should if you compare their tankiness to yours as an archer. If they deal more damage than you, they should be as vulnerable as you are. That's the main issue at the moment in most cases.
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Archer now requires skill to be played and it's not only about spamming a macro once your 100% debuff is in. The class is still in a very good spot, and even stronger now as it can support criters due to the 100% success block & dodge debuffs (which are in my opinion a complete mistake).
The problem doesn't come from archer being weak, it comes from other classes dealing more damages than they should if you compare their tankiness to yours as an archer. If they deal more damage than you, they should be as vulnerable as you are. That's the main issue at the moment in most cases.
That is what I am actually trying to say thank you.
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for hunter can farm in shinewood like others class can u make " Explosive Bodkin " aoe skill
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Hunter already deals about 55 to 60k full buffed on shinewood mobs, which is average for most classes. I don't think AOE Explosive bodkin would be balanced because aside of the PVE part it'd be too op for PVP.
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May I ask how archers kill summoners, hunters, moon elves, and rangers in the current version of Infernum? Please explain, what should an archer do if debuff is not 100% guaranteed? Summoners can kill archers in full defense suits! And if all the reduced attribute resistance of the archer hits, they cannot kill the summoner. Can you tell me exactly why? Is this what is called balance? Is the damage of an archer high? Can only escape? Why did he die before he even ran out?
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Have a few idiots ever played with archers? Just farting here, can Proteus kill summoners with the same equipment? Can he kill the ranger? Can he kill the Moon Elf Summon? When the equipment strength is the same!
The current problem is that the archer's vulnerability and damage do not match at all! We can accept anyone killing an archer, but the corresponding archer should also be able to kill anyone! The current damage is unequal! You just don't admit it!
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Talking about Balance and is QQ Why archers cant kill every Class 😂
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Archer still does a lot of damage, helpless is still 100%, but the amount of ele res it debuffs has been reduced to put it on the HH one which is an aoe, in fact the total amount of ele res an archer debuffs has been slightly increased
Of course you wont be able to kill all classes, if you would been able to do so, that would be unbalanced af, summoner is the best damage dealer, but if you combine archer and another class like hunter or orbi (which is what you have most of the time) in infernum then archer would destroy anyone
Of course if you are alone against 2 or 3 guys you wont be able to do anything else than run and that is normal
So stop complaining
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Well...honestly archer needs a boost. Either being an glass canon or a bit more tanky. Currently it's more of an sheet of paper . It gonna cut you but it doesn't really hurt. There could be 3 ways to actually make archers more balanced :
1. Keep the survive like this but increase its heroic+ele DMG a lot
2. Add % HP on mana gain passive (up to 70%)
3. Increase cast reduce debuffs by at least 30% each skill so he can make his enemies casting too slow to kill him.
That's my opinion on archer as it's just too paper. Yesterday I (CRIT slayer) was fighting an archer+ranger in a 1v2 (ok, these weren't the best players but before the update they would actually kill me ) but yesterday they just didn't because archer had to try more times for the 85% ele res debuff . I mean.... That's cool for me but winning as critter in a 1v2 was kinda crazy .
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Well...honestly archer needs a boost. Either being an glass canon or a bit more tanky. Currently it's more of an sheet of paper . It gonna cut you but it doesn't really hurt. There could be 3 ways to actually make archers more balanced :
1. Keep the survive like this but increase its heroic+ele DMG a lot
2. Add % HP on mana gain passive (up to 70%)
3. Increase cast reduce debuffs by at least 30% each skill so he can make his enemies casting too slow to kill him.
That's my opinion on archer as it's just too paper. Yesterday I (CRIT slayer) was fighting an archer+ranger in a 1v2 (ok, these weren't the best players but before the update they would actually kill me ) but yesterday they just didn't because archer had to try more times for the 85% ele res debuff . I mean.... That's cool for me but winning as critter in a 1v2 was kinda crazy .
You're absolutely right! Archers spend most of their time like this, dying before hitting -85%!
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problem is not with archer.. problem is with summoner, elementalist, and etc coz the characters are not really balanced at all at the moment. thats my opinion.
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Archer is fine atm. They just need fix damage from sumoner and elementalis.
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Archer is fine atm. They just need fix damage from sumoner and elementalis.
Ranger also hits around 4-5k without debuffs. Sorc also has halt and huge damage against archer atm its very hard to get in a position where you can kill them without taking very big risks.
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Ranger has always been a good dmg dealer in PVP but not in PVE..
Sorc is the same, but they have litteraly no defensive, their halt if 65% success.. if they miss one they're dead..
Archer is in a fine spot, the problem is somewhere else.
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Ranger has always been a good dmg dealer in PVP but not in PVE..
Sorc is the same, but they have litteraly no defensive, their halt if 65% success.. if they miss one they're dead..
Archer is in a fine spot, the problem is somewhere else.
It is 75 atm and it has 45 cd time(I don't know its max cd is capped but it is not written) also don't forget that restrain still does not work in infernum. So if you don't get halted once you have 4.5 seconds to hit your debuffs and kill the sorc. So what I am trying to say archer can be countered witih very high damage or skills like halt etc. in infernum its a bit harder from old times to play. When you consider that there are classes that can 1 bar archer easily I think it needs to buffed. As it looks justac team does not want to bring huge nerfs to any class. Before the hh skills update ranger was not effective as it is right now also. Now it has also 35 m cast range so if there is a ranger it can make useless with its cd debuff and you cannot run away from it easily.
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Ranger has always been a good dmg dealer in PVP but not in PVE..
Sorc is the same, but they have litteraly no defensive, their halt if 65% success.. if they miss one they're dead..
Archer is in a fine spot, the problem is somewhere else.
It is 75 atm and it has 45 cd time(I don't know its max cd is capped but it is not written) also don't forget that restrain still does not work in infernum. So if you don't get halted once you have 4.5 seconds to hit your debuffs and kill the sorc. So what I am trying to say archer can be countered witih very high damage or skills like halt etc. in infernum its a bit harder from old times to play. When you consider that there are classes that can 1 bar archer easily I think it needs to buffed. As it looks justac team does not want to bring huge nerfs to any class. Before the hh skills update ranger was not effective as it is right now also. Now it has also 35 m cast range so if there is a ranger it can make useless with its cd debuff and you cannot run away from it easily.
There is also other classes that can be 1bar, but still its not needed to boost them, because that would make a way more unbalanced game, archer is fine as it is, yes it became a bit more complicated to play it, at least now its not helpless and spam macro while running brainless gaming experience but it requires you to think and be careful on your moves
What needs to be worked on is the summoner having a great increase of damage due to the CD reduced on the HH skills, same for elem, those two had the highest damage output before but now since the HH skills are spammable it boosted their damage without actually giving them damage
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Ranger and sorc are so easy to kill compare with sumoner and elem bro
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Ranger has always been a good dmg dealer in PVP but not in PVE..
Sorc is the same, but they have litteraly no defensive, their halt if 65% success.. if they miss one they're dead..
Archer is in a fine spot, the problem is somewhere else.
It is 75 atm and it has 45 cd time(I don't know its max cd is capped but it is not written) also don't forget that restrain still does not work in infernum. So if you don't get halted once you have 4.5 seconds to hit your debuffs and kill the sorc. So what I am trying to say archer can be countered witih very high damage or skills like halt etc. in infernum its a bit harder from old times to play. When you consider that there are classes that can 1 bar archer easily I think it needs to buffed. As it looks justac team does not want to bring huge nerfs to any class. Before the hh skills update ranger was not effective as it is right now also. Now it has also 35 m cast range so if there is a ranger it can make useless with its cd debuff and you cannot run away from it easily.
There is also other classes that can be 1bar, but still its not needed to boost them, because that would make a way more unbalanced game, archer is fine as it is, yes it became a bit more complicated to play it, at least now its not helpless and spam macro while running brainless gaming experience but it requires you to think and be careful on your moves
What needs to be worked on is the summoner having a great increase of damage due to the CD reduced on the HH skills, same for elem, those two had the highest damage output before but now since the HH skills are spammable it boosted their damage without actually giving them damage
Its now you need to hit cast slows + all debuffs it was still hard before but now its harder. You should also consider restrain is still not working. Other classes don't require hitting cast slows because they are not as paper as archer(Not sure about mage and sorc has halt). It was never hit helpless and then macro since the damage output has increased because you could just get 1 barred by some classes. We are not asking to turn it into a class which will 1 bar everyone. Now most of the classes can kill it with 4 skill hits without any debuff.
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Yup
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Aook should go ask Proteus and come here brainlessly opposing others! What you said lacks persuasiveness, it feels like you're just a clown!
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the only clown are u buddy.
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You're just spamming this post to complain about archer requiring skill Wang, go take the piss somewhere else.
Most of us agree that archer is in a fine state, requires more skill than before which isn't a bad thing, you can't go braindead macro spam anymore.
Other classes dealing more damage than your archer while tanking more is maybe the problem and that's what most of us are highlighting through this post.
Now stop spamming pointless answer, everyone heard you're unhappy with archer requiring you to make an effort, maybe you should consider switching class, I heard ranger is in a good state also
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Hey , the problem lies with the summoner. Summoners are too powerful in all aspects, with first-class skill damage and very fast movement speed. I don't know how much blood they have, but they must have a lot. But since D0gm4 uses this profession, the operator will not make the corresponding balance, so I have been thinking about a question. If the summoner cannot be weakened, can the operator enhance other professions accordingly? In a fully defensive state, summoners must be able to withstand at least one round of skill damage, otherwise everyone should play summoners!
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Maxed archer vs maxed summoner.
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a maxed summoner is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 3500 to 4,500 dmg.
Summoner on tank mode vs me on tank mode they hit me 5.500 - 6500.
Summoner on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 6500-8,500. If they somehow find you under 80 resistance then you will most likely receive over 10.000 minimum.
The only way to counter summoner at this point is cast debuffs and hope that you get them on a bad switch. Under any other conditions you get melted due to their extreme heroic damage.
These numbers are an average from my fights versus Earn and Awp06.
Maxed archer vs maxed elementalist
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a maxed ele is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them around 4.500 dmg.
Elem on tank mode vs me on tank mode they hit me around 5.500
Elem on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 90) they hit me from 6000-7500.
Elementalist again they are pretty tanky vs classes that they don't debuff their physical resistance. Archer vs Elementalist equally geared, archer has no chance and can die on tank mode if they do not try to escape/run.
These are average numbers versus Coolbaby.
Maxed Archer vs Sorc
Haven't fought a maxed sorc yet (I think)
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a sorc is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them around 6000 - 7.000 dmg.
Sorc on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me around 6500. If they somehow find you under 80 resistance then you will most likely receive over 8.000 minimum.
Narcolepsy needs to be adjust since it has LONG duration and insane success and can be spammed. Plus it bugs your passive/ranks in case you switch uniques during narcolepsy.
Maxed archer vs maxed hunter
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a maxed hunter is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 3500 to 4,000 dmg.
Hunter on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 4500-6000. If they somehow find you under 80 dim resistance then you will most likely receive over 7.000 minimum.
Op hp debuff takes instantly over 7000 hp.
Maxed archer vs ranger
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a ranger is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 4000-5000.
Ranger on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 4500-5500.
Maxed archer vs orbitter
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and the orbitter is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 4000-4500.
Orbitter on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 4000-4500.
Maxed archer vs maxed zerk
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a zerker is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 4000-4500.
Zerker on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 5000-7000.
Sample from fights vs Beastguardins.
Maxed archer vs maxed swash
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a swashs on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 3500-4500.
Swash on attacking mode vs me on tank mode (my resistance dim/ele phys over 80) they hit me from 4500-5500.
Sample from fights vs Giaoxilan.
Maxed archer vs knights
While my archer is on more than 1000+ elemental damage (arcane + vengeances) and a knight is on tank mode (their elemental resistance is over 80) I hit them max 4000-4500.
Knights crit me around 6000 currently. Knights on ignore elemental builld hit me 8.000 to 10.000
Maxed archer vs slayer/mages
Haven't fought many but I am able to kill slayers and mages quite easily at this point.
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change the useless skills of elem, such a bomb is so incomprehensible that it takes a lot of time to say nothing or attacks another person who is not in focus or is standing behind me
give a debuff to, for example, Frozen Darts
change the same
Sacred One
In summoner's case, I guess it's just like these debuffs that clash with each other, so
Slayer has a debuff like Tidal Wave
doesn't give anything, give Slayer a little more opportunities
change to dodge/block debuff
next 30%
e.g. knight have now a lot of dmg after update and very large 2 block/dodge debuffs and he is more durable than slayer, there should be some balance
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change the useless skills of elem, such a bomb is so incomprehensible that it takes a lot of time to say nothing or attacks another person who is not in focus or is standing behind me
give a debuff to, for example, Frozen Darts
change the same
Sacred One
In summoner's case, I guess it's just like these debuffs that clash with each other, so
Slayer has a debuff like Tidal Wave
doesn't give anything, give Slayer a little more opportunities
change to dodge/block debuff
next 30%
e.g. knight have now a lot of dmg after update and very large 2 block/dodge debuffs and he is more durable than slayer, there should be some balance
Slayer has a crit resis debuff, knight doesn't. Every class has it's pro and con. Can't buff a slayer's dodge and block debuff cuz " It's not the same as knight ".
Also Bomba is pretty reliable. You can spam what 9 of them now after increase gate change. The larva is very unrealiable, since it's easy to kill and counter. Bomba's stick to you after they attack and you WILL get the debuff.
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9 bombs interesting, maybe ask Hildaliv first if he can create 9 pets and don't write nonsense. you can create 4 bombs and immediately one dies . and btw pets die in 1 sec usless think
and about slayer
only RoG defends this slayer so much, why don't you play him if he's so good? Slayer without a knight is nothing, most of the class fails in a few seconds because it has a weakness for cast / ele res which is the basis of dmg from other classes and has little block & dodge, so any debuff is punished by most of the class
btw knight I don't think he has any need to change thanks to the recent dmg changes, does sprint have the ability to kill and escape if necessary, and the slayer will get a cast debuff, he won't have time to cast legendary slayer or jump away from ambush
there are too many disadvantages of this class and that's it, if this crit res debuff top hurts you so much, replace it with dodge/block debuff and let's see how it will work
so what if it has a lot of damage, if you can't hit anyone, you jump into someone, you get a cast debuff and you lie down because you have no way to escape or tank
the knight has a way to refuel and even when he activates the barrier or sprint he now has more options
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Bomba/Larva should be fixed and adapted.
They are the only summon/debuff and it make no sense how easy its to counter them. Making them easyer to hit ennemy or untargetable could work, but i think making it into a spell and nerfing its effect since it will be easyer to use, would help those class (who dont really need help on 1v1 to be honest)
Slayer has low accuracy but hit like a truck. Knight hit alot but weaker then slayer.
The game was made to play as a team, so combining slayer with knight is a good combo.
Slayer solo will always struggle to kill most class, if it get to much of a boost, it will be impossible to deal with it
Nerfing crit resist to give more dodge debuff, will only make the crits combo even weaker in teamfight
I dont know what the class need to be viable for 1v1, but yeah its very easy to counter slayer solo
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Bomba/Larva should be fixed and adapted.
They are the only summon/debuff and it make no sense how easy its to counter them. Making them easyer to hit ennemy or untargetable could work, but i think making it into a spell and nerfing its effect since it will be easyer to use, would help those class (who dont really need help on 1v1 to be honest)
Slayer has low accuracy but hit like a truck. Knight hit alot but weaker then slayer.
The game was made to play as a team, so combining slayer with knight is a good combo.
Slayer solo will always struggle to kill most class, if it get to much of a boost, it will be impossible to deal with it
Nerfing crit resist to give more dodge debuff, will only make the crits combo even weaker in teamfight
I dont know what the class need to be viable for 1v1, but yeah its very easy to counter slayer solo
And so it is for knights, his attack speed is way slower than any other critters, which means than just heavy hand from archer slows him hard
To be honest only thing that could be done to make critters viable in 1v1 is to make the game solo play oriented, but justac just want the game to be team based which is the best imo for such a game
But i really feel like critters are good only for bosses and nothing else now, and even tho with the damage boost casters do as much or even more damage than crit on bosses
The server promotes team play, critters are just annoying casters in team fights nothing more, in little teams it is strong, might even be the best due to their ability to destroy people faster than casters
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where some info about next rebalance @justac ? we need more
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Been suggested before, but here we go again
Swash:
Take away 5 - 10 % movement speed from fortitude soul and add it on a non party buff from swash.
In selfbuffed fights it will hold the same movement speed, but in fullbuffed fights this will result in a balanced change for both parties.
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The combined Dodge Debuffs (Knight / Slayer / Archer ... ) maybe fits on full buffed fights,
but on selfbuffed fights its outstanding and u die in seconds. (feels a bit weired)
The stun chance, under actual attackspeed settings is also insane.
idk if its only me, but there could be adjusted.
do not get me wrong, i like to see critters are used again.
stay safe
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#nerfstun
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give a debuff to the slayer, now even a knight can defeat the slayer without any problems on ignor ele res bulid
Slayer now turns out to be the worst character, I have all my stats at max and what?
if I'm falling apart sec slayer need 1 more debuff if he die like this
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give a debuff to the slayer, now even a knight can defeat the slayer without any problems on ignor ele res bulid
Slayer now turns out to be the worst character, I have all my stats at max and what?
if I'm falling apart sec slayer need 1 more debuff if he die like this
Its the ignore ele build that needs to be reworked and balanced, every char gets fucked by an ignore ele build, its just too strong
Its not needed to buff the slayers damage or debuffs while its already good enough when you see they boosted is tankiness so much with all that ele resi they added to him
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u see with this ignore ele res thay can do nothing then, and i not mean about dmg only debuff all criters can hit easy a target by debuffs only slayer had problems if this dmg its problem then take out this fck dmg and put a debuff block dodge and more accuracy idk do something
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It's true that slayer on his own is too weak if it comes to debuffing dodge/block . Ofc with a knight or swash he is becoming a "slayer" but on his own as a single guy it's mostly useless. While knight and swash can debuff 90+ dodge/block slayer is just not hitting at all. Giving slayer a 2nd block or dodge debuff would be necessary or make it useful as a caster . For now it's useless as caster and just ok ish as critter, while all other critters are either good as cast or CRIT.